BritSmiths I need help!!

[Lysdexik]

I am trying to get a plan together to make a clog makers stock knife, I am from Monmouth originaly and stock knives were around, but not common. I live in the USA now & stock knives never made the swim to this coast. Virginia had a large Welsh contingent because of the slate here, but clogs were not the feature of Virginia industrial life that they were in the UK. My family were primarily coopers but they were brokers for the local clog sole makers that made MILLIONS of them for the factory and mill workers in the industrial revolution (OK HISTORY LESSON OVER). I want to make clogs for a couple of guys who do the hysterical re-enactments (now you know why lysdexic), clogs are not prone to problems with sweat/athletes foot/burning/wearing out frequently/and sore feet. Has anyone made a stock knife? They were used in the welsh borders for clog making, in the forest of dean for tent pegs, in the new forest for Willow blanks for cricket bats, etc. For the uninitiated a stock knife is like a draw knife with a hook instead of a handle on the one end, and a long handle/lever on the other. The hook was put through a staple or ring in the "stock" (a big bench looking thing) and pushed down to slice, very accurately I might add, wood from split wooden blanks. If you GOOGLE "clog makers stock knife" you will get a couple of sites with pics. Give me some clues guys, I can't work out how to start. The thing I like about this forum is the "superbrain" concept, I get smarter by asking for your help than I could ever possibly be on my own. To quote that great British philosopher and genius, Wurzel Gummidge "put your thinking head on" and see what you come up with.
Paul Hook

[Dave Budd]

I've made a straight stock knife, but not the guage sort for hollowing clogs out with.

What info are you seeking about making them?

The bigger they are, the more effective they are in use and correspondingly the harder they are to make (unless you cheat and weld the bits together post heat treat)

the straight one is simple, just forge a blade with a hook on one end and a really long and chunky tang on teh other. Heat treating is more tricky if you like to temper in teh oven, unless you are set up for swords of course.

[SteveW]

I'd be looking for a big leaf spring and a draw knife tutorial...then scale-up
One went on Ebay uk just the other day

Minty Clog Makers Bench Shave - eBay (end time 02-May-09 20:00:00 BST)

[John B]

The ebay entry should give you enough info to make one,

The key bit is the inserted tool steel to give a hardenable cutting edge,

The cutting edge, is the only bit to worry about with any heat treating, I would just locally harden and condition the edge in a 'trench oil bath' to give the required hardness

[jimbob]

post pictures as you make it be interesting to see how you make it

[Mike Ameling]

John Seymour's book The Forgotten Crafts isbn 394-53956-7 shows an early picture of a clog sole maker using a stock knife on a simple 4-legged workbench. It also shows drawings of a Stock Knife and a Gripping Knife.

I would also start with a large truck leaf spring. The "handle" will take a lot of drawing out, but that is what those "dumb assistant's" are for. The advantage of drawing out that long handle from the spring steel is to have the strength and flex of it, without too much extra bulk. Something of a trade-off there.

I've made a number of cooper's tools over the years, but no stock knife yet. The last batch of tools included two cooper's block hooks, a couple heading vices, and some inside scorps. I could have used Jay's big air hammer on those cooper's block hooks. Tapering one end and flaring out the other end of 3/4 square tool steel takes a lot of ... muscle. My little 25# Little Giant barely dented it. I ended up using the short-handled 6 pound sledge to do the major metal movement. (Used an axle from a farm disc, so probably was 1080.)

Good luck with your project. Can't wait for the pics!

Mikey

[Mike Ameling]

Here's a couple pics of the Cooper's Tools I made a couple weeks ago.



Cooper's Tools - used to make wood barrels. I made them for a friend to use up at Grand Portage National Monument in Northern Minnesota. The T shaped stakes are Rivet Set stump anvils - for setting the rivets in the iron bands (if using iron on the barrels). The large "hooks" get driven into a stump and you "hook" the barrel stave you are carving on under the flared end, then press down on the other end with your body and carve the future barrel stave with a drawknife. The D looped pieces are the Heading Vice. The ends are forged/filed into a wood screw. You screw that end into the head of your barrel to pull it up into place. Where you screw it in eventually is where you drill the tap hole for the spigot. The other pieces are scorps or in-shaves. You use them to scrape and smooth the inside of your future barrel.

I initially made a pair of scorps using some stainless pipe I had. But I couldn't get it to heat-treat and hold an edge like I wanted it to. They worked OK for simple scraping, just not for shaving the wood. So I forged up some 1080 for another pair. I did not put wood handles on them. Karl will do that to fit his preferences.

Ah, the little projects we ... play .... with.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. But it did kind of remind me of those Viking era wood working tools I forged up years ago for one of those Living History people. He just needed the blades, shaves, and spoon drill bits. He was going to do all the wood handles himself. Never did see and pics of the finished tools.

[Lysdexik]

Thanks guys.
You may be waiting a while for pics - the whole thing is a little beyond my scope - but if you don't stretch, you'll never know. Thanks for the epay post, I wish I had seen that monster. For 225 quid I'd have torn his arm off! It was in Knighton, right in the area I would expect to find one. I am going to see the guys at Colonial Williamsburg soon, so I will pick their brains, they do not have one in the collection, but Jay Gaynor was realy helpfull in finding reference material for me to look at. The roughing knife is the bit that worries me there are two other tools, a hollowing knife, which is just a gouge type blade set at right angles to the "tail", and a blade for cutting a groove for the leather to finish in. Those are easy, but I have never made a blade that long, I temper tools all the time for one and another, but that edge must be about 18 inches, and I usualy draw my edges with a copper billet, it's a long time since I tried with a flame. I was interested to see the coopers tools, my family were coopers for a long time, a belly/block hook was where the big money was earned, casks were made piece work, and the faster you could raise them the more you made, but it was brutal work at the hook - a young mans tool - according to my cousin, who was the last full time cooper. I am a joiner, so I primarily work on straight lines, to take a piece of wood that is curved in all planes and match it to others that are similarly curved, stand them up,and make them watertight, with no pattern at all, is a black art, two shades off witchcraft!!:confused:
Hookie......

[beatamax]

This is a picture from John Seymours forgotten arts. It shows a the knife shaped more like a gouge. The wood is usually roughed out while its green. I reckon the blade on the knife on ebay was too big for clog making, it only needs to be half that size.