stuarthesmith Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 wow, what a blacksmith! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Holmes Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 For some of those older photos, say, Tin types, do the photos get put on glass/tin ( if they are glass) reverse order? For older photos, maybe knowing the camera would be the best to solve some mystery? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintype Just a thought. What an interesting thread! ( MY horn will be to the right, and thats the way I like it. uhhuh uhhuh!) HA!......... AND not too far off base... http://home.comcast.net/~meadmaker/Viking1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarthesmith Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 nice pic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 How can you question the power, grace and technique (not to mention the ensemble) of this master......blacksmith Stu? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarthesmith Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 notice the thumb in this video................http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/31634-if-only/#entry322783 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ok, this has gone on long enough, i feel you are discriminating against those who have no thumbs!!!! how would they feel about what is "THE RIGHT (OR WROUGHT) WAY TO FORGE"........ :P iam ambidextrous, so i piont my horns both ways !!!! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarthesmith Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 I thought you all might like this video...................she is beautiful AND talented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupiphile Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I wish the economy would get better so this thread could finally rest in peace. It was my understanding that back in the "good ole' days" smith's would die with a hammer in their hand (thumbs up or down, I wonder?) not face down, drool addled on a keybored(sic), engaged in pedantry............ thumbs down, obviously, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarthesmith Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 you live in philadelphia? so do I!!! wanna thumb wrassle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 another nice pic I would have to agree (to thumbs up)in this case as I too put my thumb up when I'm doing finishing blows......In this case it it just might prevent a hammer to the puss from a missed blow......... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarthesmith Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 the cover of a forging textbook..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Nearly 30 years ago, I read a truly excellent book, titled - SARUM "The Novel of England", ... by Edward Rutherfurd. In this "Mitchner-like" History, ... the author traces the development of English speaking people, from their earliest beginnings, through "modern" times. As part of that study, he takes note of the physical differences in the various tribes, ... that evolved into today's recognized ethnic groups. The Romans in the Southern parts of the Island, ... Vikings in the North, ... Indigenous pre-historic "Natives", ... the iterate members of Craftsmen's "Guilds" that built the Cathedrals and Castles, ... and the "Norman" French invaders. One of the variations in physical appearance that he pointed out, was the difference in their hands. Some with elongated, slender, nimble fingers, ... and those ( like myself ) with "square" palms and short, thick fingers. Which leads me to speculate on the original topic of this thread. Perhaps, the "best", ... or "correct" thumb position, is directly related to the physical shape and construction of each individual hand ? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 4 hours ago, SmoothBore said: Nearly 30 years ago, I read a truly excellent book, titled - SARUM "The Novel of England", ... by Edward Rutherfurd. I Which leads me to speculate on the original topic of this thread. Perhaps, the "best", ... or "correct" thumb position, is directly related to the physical shape and construction of each individual hand ? A good speculation I think. I don't know if it's actually material to potential damage but it may indeed be the reason so many do it one way or the other intuitively. I have stumpy little paddle hands myself and can't develop the power I normally do with my thumb on the handle. However I've found myself with it on top of the handle doing really fine work, chasing, engraving, etc. where control trumps power across the board. It's a really good point Smoothbore, something to think about for sure. Thanks. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This issue regarding the shape and structure of hands ( and feet ) has intrigued me for quite some time. If memory serves, ... Rutherfurd attributes the long, delicate fingers and hands, to the Native "hunter / gathers" that he called the "River People", ... and the square palms and thick, short fingers primarily to the traveling Craftsmen ( mostly Stone Masons ) that had their origins in Western Europe. Those "Guildsman" Stone Masons and Iron "Smites" were most likely of Germanic heritage. ( Like me, ... I'm Swiss, ... and a 32nd degree Mason. ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi, So I have been reading some smithing books and watching some videos and was watching and reading about how the smiths say to hold the hammer. By hold I mean wear on the handle. Many guys say you should hold the handle at the very bottom. However, I was watching some videos by Brian Brazeal and Alec Steele and they seem to hold the hammer above 1/2. Which is the correct way? I know that the lower you go, the more mass a piece receives from the hammer but he harder to swing. Vise versa for going higher. My question is which is e right way so that I possibly don't make or stop any bad habits. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I've seen a lot said about this. It seems to go back and fourth on personal preference and hand, arm, shoulder health. There are other posts on this and I'm pretty sure this post will end the same way as those. I think there Are certain ways to hold a hammer and position your body to the work that are healthier or better but I also see sometimes different grips on the hammer work for the different work you would be doing. eg. Heavy work vs. light work. Hope your ready for enough opinions to make your head spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Yea Hammer control LOL !!! Ouch LOL another one to ck out is Mark Aspery sp ? every smith or carpenter needs to understand hammer control ! = how to use a hammer ! this can of nails / worms is talked in many threads often here -- watch & listen and then practice with a 2x4 & nails you will get the swing of it & the grip hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 man, I just spent a lot of time typing a reply, then decided to press the wrong button.... URGGGG......so I'll do it again, and simplify. in order to get power out of a 2lbs hammer, you will have to hold it at the end of the handle to get power. however, on a 4lbs hammer, you can hold it closer to its head, because the power is in the weight. most of the people who have studied Mr.Brazeal's techniques,(including me) have found it easier to lift and drop a heavier hammer and get the same, or more force out of each blow, instead of forcing around a 2lbs hammer. but it all depends on how you swing your hammer, and your personal preference. just my 2 cense. Ethan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ethan the blacksmith said: man, I just spent a lot of time typing a reply, then decided to press the wrong button.... URGGGG......so I'll do it again, and simplify. in order to get power out of a 2lbs hammer, you will have to hold it at the end of the handle to get power. however, on a 4lbs hammer, you can hold it closer to its head, because the power is in the weight. most of the people who have studied Mr.Brazeal's techniques,(including me) have found it easier to lift and drop a heavier hammer and get the same, or more force out of each blow, instead of forcing around a 2lbs hammer. but it all depends on how you swing your hammer, and your personal preference. just my 2 cense. Ethan What Ethan said. Also, you may find your grip changing depending on the size of the hammer and the kind of blow you are delivering. With lighter hammers, I'll hold towards the end if I want power, closer to the middle if I want accuracy or speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Renaud Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the "Properway" to hold a hammer depends entirely on the one your using at the time and what you are doing with it!trying to work close or refine a section your doing it might be best to choke up on that handle for a bit better control of the head ,Trying to rough draw out and you want or need power in your stroke then move to the end of the handle . The one thing I see stressed most in Hammer use is don't rest your thumb on the top of the handle wrap it around resting your thumb on top is supposedly ergonomically bad and can cause tendon damage I hear this in ANY trade a hammer is used for long periods not just Smithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It's good to think about this issue, ... but be advised, ... there is no universally accepted "right" answer. It's something that you'll eventually work out for yourself, ... to your own satisfaction. I'm not saying that we're all "unique little snowflakes" that cannot benefit from the experiences of others. What I am saying, ... is that the physical differences in our bodies, influence our results. Obviously, not all "work" is the same, ... therefore, the type of blow is constantly changing as well. --------------------------------------------- As my hands become more and more "Arthritic", I find that "stroking" blows with a fairly heavy hammer, ... generate less "wear & tear" to my joints, than the high-velocity impacts of "vertical" blows. ----------------------------------------- I used to be mystified at the popularity of the #25 pound "Little Giant" Power Hammers. To me, they seemed nearly useless, ... while a #100 pound machine. was of obvious merit. But you see knowledgeable, experienced guys using them ..... Finally, ... I "get it" now, ... and am working on a design for a light, quick, horizontal Power Hammer. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I agree with what as been said above but would like to express it slightly different. Ask your body! It knows (unless it is too confused by advice from others). The advice on swordsmanship by Minamoto Musashi can be paraphrased as "do not think about how you move or hold your sword - kill the enemy". The same is true for hammering. Do not focus on the hammer. Focus on the steel or (as Frosty says using a martial artist's trick) just below the steel. The process starts from the feet. Stand comfortably and stable. Keep you body comfortable and stable. Move your arm in a natural way. Hold the hammer in a way that is not tiring and whack away. If you are not hitting where and how you want to, you are probably standing in the wrong place and/or your anvil is not of the right height. (or you are tired. If so: quit for the day) Do not hold the hammer thigter than is necessary - it is tiring and the handle is not a life saver. If you are doing fine adjustments, your thumb may be creeping up on top of the handle. Do not force or prevent that. To most people it is uncomfortable and inefficient to hold the thumb on top when banging away. (It may also be bad for you) When you lift your hammer there are two kinds of forces. The pure lifting of the weight and the bending moment on your wrist. A heavy hammer on a long handle gives a high moment and is uncomfortable. A lighter hammer gives more bang with a longer handle and the same moment on the wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Ok thank you. For general forging I hold my hammer about half way on the handle thumb down. I have Mark Aspery's book on how he shows how he swings the hammer, but I tend not to swing a different way. I suppose as long as I am not getting any pains, what I am doing must be ok. From there I can work on efficency. Thanks for the help 6 hours ago, gote said: I agree with what as been said above but would like to express it slightly different. Ask your body! It knows (unless it is too confused by advice from others). The advice on swordsmanship by Minamoto Musashi can be paraphrased as "do not think about how you move or hold your sword - kill the enemy". The same is true for hammering. Do not focus on the hammer. Focus on the steel or (as Frosty says using a martial artist's trick) just below the steel. The process starts from the feet. Stand comfortably and stable. Keep you body comfortable and stable. Move your arm in a natural way. Hold the hammer in a way that is not tiring and whack away. If you are not hitting where and how you want to, you are probably standing in the wrong place and/or your anvil is not of the right height. (or you are tired. If so: quit for the day) Do not hold the hammer thigter than is necessary - it is tiring and the handle is not a life saver. If you are doing fine adjustments, your thumb may be creeping up on top of the handle. Do not force or prevent that. To most people it is uncomfortable and inefficient to hold the thumb on top when banging away. (It may also be bad for you) When you lift your hammer there are two kinds of forces. The pure lifting of the weight and the bending moment on your wrist. A heavy hammer on a long handle gives a high moment and is uncomfortable. A lighter hammer gives more bang with a longer handle and the same moment on the wrist. That is exactly how I I vision everything. I am not concerned about my posture or how I swing, although now I will be thinking about it next time I forge and wind up messing myself up. Same thing goes for me when I play basketball. When I practice making shots, I make very little. But when I am in a game and just make a quick shot not thinking about how I set up, I usually make them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I was reading through Donald Streeter’s book Professional Smithing and he has an excellent section on thumb placement and hammer control. It is one of the best that I have read on the subject. It is nothing that anyone who has been Smithing for a while has not already come to learn through trial and error but I think it is one of the best explanations for someone who is inexperienced. In summary he says that in fine forge work the thumb is placed on top of the handle to control the angle of the hammer face and varying the placement one can easily and repeatable control the angle of the hammer blows. Furthermore he does go on to say that this control is not necessary when rough forging and breaking down stock and to put the thumb where is most comfortable. Here is another professional who has made hand forging a career and promotes thumb on top. His book is excellent and I would encourage anyone looking for a new read to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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